STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Do the president's latest moves make any sense? We've called political strategist Rina Shah, founder of risk assessment firm Rilax Strategies, and a former Republican congressional aide. Good morning.
RINA SHAH: Good morning to you.
INSKEEP: What do you think about when you hear that the president wants Bill Pulte to get a turn at the job of DNI in order to do some specific things, like dig up 2020 election information?
SHAH: Well, I think, No. 1, this is a classic Trump move, and it's also classic Trump deal-making, trying to tie the DNI confirmation to FISA renewal and the SAVE America Act. It's bold, but it's also really creating heartburn on the Hill right now. That's the one thing I think the president is truly unaware of and unwilling to accept because it's even with Republicans who want these priorities done right. I think, on one hand, I'm looking at the long-term play here, and that's what's most treacherous for the president. In his Truth Social post overnight, he linked, again, the Jay Clayton DNI hearing delay to confirming his U.S. attorney pick and then bundling FISA 702 renewal with the SAVE America Act. I can't overemphasize how disruptive this is and how much it's his way of forcing priorities on election security and intel tools. So what Bill Pulte has to do with all this is just sit and wait because he's part of the chaos, and he shouldn't make any sounds.
INSKEEP: How - I'm just trying to get my brain around this. How do lawmakers respond when they hear that the president blocks his own priorities in order to get his own priorities?
SHAH: (Laughter) Well, look, in looking at all this, you have to think of how very mixed this is because we're seeing so much tension even among strong conservatives on this. I want to be very clear here. Senators like Rand Paul have long been vocal skeptics of the FISA expansions. Why? Because of privacy and civil liberties concerns. And he's pushed reforms before to protect Americans' data from incidental collection. That's one thing a lot of us are talking about in this era, just what's happening with our data and how unusual it is at the federal level in Trump 2.0 because this time around, corporations have a door wide open, and that's really the situation here. You can talk about election integrity and needing proof of citizenship and solid voter ID to prevent any noncitizens from voting, but the evidence just isn't there. So what you have Republicans, and particularly mainstream Republican leaders, saying is that they just want a clean FISA extension to keep counterterrorism tools sharp without gaps.
INSKEEP: I want to invite you to get inside the president's head, granting that we have to be careful about doing this. You don't truly know what anybody thinks, but I've been reflecting on this. President Trump, to state the obvious, lost the 2020 election. Thousands of election workers from both parties affirmed that. Dozens of lawsuits failed to change the results. Recounts by his own supporters in Arizona found that he really lost, and yet the president keeps claiming fraud. Now, people used to say, well, he's lying. This is the big lie. As the years go on, is it possible that the president is just not open to reality and believes what he claims?
SHAH: This is a tough one because, in essence, what you're asking me is, is Trump really thinking it through on the political capital that he would have to spend right now to get what he wants done? And I think Trump has plenty of capital with the base in the House - right? - where you're seeing certain things passed. But tying it to FISA - tying election integrity to FISA really puts real pressure on the Senate when we're so close to the midterms.
And you've got, again, Rand Paul types on the Libertarian wing, who will demand privacy guardrails. But you've got institutionalists who worry about national security gaps. That's what's really at stake here. You know, Democrats are dug in against Pulte and the linkage. Trump can move the needle on negotiations. But in a 60-vote Senate, it's going to take some unbundling or compromise. He has the leverage, but sustained chaos is what we're talking about here. And that's what could test it ahead of midterms.
So when we think about the bigger picture and that phrase, the big lie from the past, it all gets very chaotic when Republicans who are vulnerable for reelection, when their heads are on the chopping block. That's what we're really asking about because we've seen over many years now, the past decade, that President Trump has been in our lives at the federal level, we've seen our elections are secure and fair. So it's really about the political capital we're going to see expended...
INSKEEP: Yeah.
SHAH: ...Between the White House and Capitol Hill...
INSKEEP: In a...
SHAH: ...Between now and the midterms.
INSKEEP: In about 10 seconds, do you think Republicans in Congress might really break with the president this time, with an election looming?
SHAH: I think there's a stronger chance than ever because this is the moment where Republicans' chances of keeping control of Congress in November are genuinely affected in the most severe way we've ever seen, again, since Trump came back.
INSKEEP: Political strategist Rina Shah. Thanks so much.
SHAH: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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